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The whore stigma & the value of sexuality is one of the most difficult issues we have yet to overcome.
The value of womans sexuality comes from the `beginning` of prehistory...when women gave birth, seemingly, to the men, without their involvement...the aattachment to creation & the honour of it, was thus placed at womens feet (& honoured with respected reverance & gifts)...because women (seemingly) `created` alone...they too, had the task of death to deal with. Thats why in history women have had this association with birth-death...`we bore into this world...therefore we carry over into the next`.
The threat of women to anothers whoring, is plain & simple `competition`...albeit sub-conscious at times...the same rules for men..it is natures aspect of survival at its finest.
Ancient Whores gave up the energy of birthing, this was part of the beginnings of patriarchy...few whores had children but wives did....an whores energy was not interrupted by the birth process, whilst the wives energies were comsumed by nurture to their children.
thus the roots of division from good girls to bad girls has evolevd, created by mankind & supported by a divide in womankind....so in effect you have three-quarters of humankind against the quarter of womankind who represent symbolically the Sacred Whore, thus the whore stigma was born.
The value of womans sexuality comes from the `beginning` of prehistory...when women gave birth, seemingly, to the men, without their involvement...the aattachment to creation & the honour of it, was thus placed at womens feet (& honoured with respected reverance & gifts)...because women (seemingly) `created` alone...they too, had the task of death to deal with. Thats why in history women have had this association with birth-death...`we bore into this world...therefore we carry over into the next`.
The threat of women to anothers whoring, is plain & simple `competition`...albeit sub-conscious at times...the same rules for men..it is natures aspect of survival at its finest.
Ancient Whores gave up the energy of birthing, this was part of the beginnings of patriarchy...few whores had children but wives did....an whores energy was not interrupted by the birth process, whilst the wives energies were comsumed by nurture to their children.
thus the roots of division from good girls to bad girls has evolevd, created by mankind & supported by a divide in womankind....so in effect you have three-quarters of humankind against the quarter of womankind who represent symbolically the Sacred Whore, thus the whore stigma was born.
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Re: The Whore Stigma
Wed, May 3, 2006 - 12:44 AMthanks for these thoughts. i have some questions about what you've written. first, i've heard a few times the idea that in prehistory we were unaware of the connection between vaginal intercourse and baby-making, and i find this hard to believe. it seems such a rudimentary connection, so basic, that it's being a discovery in relatively recent human history strikes me as very odd. can you share where you've heard this as well? i would say some of the dynamics you point out could still exist even with the knowledge of the procreative process.
i think women are viewed as bearers of life and death in a way because they are not as expendable reproductively as men are. men are not as vital to the continuation of life. men can come and go, but with just one you could still create many babies theoretically. also of course women give birth to all of us, though they truly cannot do so without a male contribution, aside from modern technological means.
in a sense it seems to me that you are naturalizing patriarchy as a necessary by-product of reproduction, which i am hoping is not true. i'd rather think that a greater and honest appreciation of male fertility and sexuality might help men feel less expendable and anxious, for one thing. women who have sex or sell sex without reproducing ought not to represent a threat. there are plenty of babies, for one thing! also, sex can be fun and safe and not tied with reproduction. more education about this difference could help things along.
that being said, i agree with you, that whores threaten insitutions of female dependence on male's providing for a family. i think that in this world where female opportunities still lag, that this is a major part of its radicalism. -
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Re: The Whore Stigma
Thu, May 4, 2006 - 1:28 AMwhy do you find it so hard to believe? I have read it in a few books now ie: Whores in History by Nickie Roberts...there is an review both of her book & others on this site:www.eiu.edu/~historia/2002/fallen.htm
But if you like I can put up in this tribe some of the excerpts?
There were many reasons that patriarchy continued, which is outlined in this book & nearly all have to do with women being divided as wives & as whores & the finiancial/safety gains.
The anxiety of men, whilst understood...is also part of their evolvement. The competition for women is a bit more than babies...its also about homes, acknowledgement & money or goods which represent safety....many wives fears are not just about the relationship but the threat of lost homes & lifestyles, lost to the `whore`....though I am a whore myself, I understand the gains 7 losses at hand here..... -
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Re: The Whore Stigma
Thu, May 4, 2006 - 9:46 AM"why do you find it so hard to believe?"
because the connection seems so obvious to me. i just have a hard time imagining no one putting two and two together!
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Re: The Whore Stigma
Thu, May 4, 2006 - 9:49 AMthanks for the link and references. i'll check them out for sure. i appreciate the depth of your knowledge in this area and hope to learn more!
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Kudos to you Sister!
Wed, August 2, 2006 - 1:42 PMMen have perverted the necessity and seperation between a "Whore" and the Sacred Prostitute for two thousand years now (i.e. The Magdalene, Mother Tiamat, Kleopatra, etc.).
In the "Bible" The Magdalene is described as a harlot who was nearly stoned to death for adultery, when most men of the time commonly had 3 or more wives. Thus confirming in womyn's minds "It's ok for us to do it. But God forbid you are not satisfied with your husband's toddler penis and look elsewhere!!!"
Mother Tiamat has been slandered for two thousand years as "The Whore of Babylon", mainly because she represented the power and strength..but most of all Sexual Freedom that is a Womyn's Goddess Given Rigth as creator and nuturer. Thus confirming in Womyn's minds for all time, "Embrace your right of freedom and passion and be destroyed like Tiamat and labeled a whore for all time!".
Kleopatra Tryphanae VII, last of and greatest not only of all Egypts rulers, but of the entire Ptolomaic line, was battered and slandered by "Caeser" Octavian Augustus after her noble suicide. According to historical FACT she was married twice and only had 2 lovers in her life, Julius Caesar and Marcus Antonius. However, she stood up for the rights of her people an dgave freedom and rights to Womyn of Egypt and stood against the armies of Rome on more than one occasion. Thus embedding in Womyn's minds eternally, "stand against male opression and be labled a whore, seductress and the downfall of an entire civilization!"
The world needs more intelligent, outspoken and brave Womyn. You have my respect Sister.