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Why are fat men accepted in the business world, with thier bellies hanging 6 feet out over they belt, which is buckled basicaly around thier manhood to make room for the bellies --- but women are chastized, stared at, and riduiculed with "you need to go on a diet", and basically take that diet stance from the time they are 13 till they die????
I'm a fat woman ! I'm as sloppy in skin and belly and boobie as any fat man.
I WANT FAT EQUALITY.
grins, ok, rant over.
I'm a fat woman ! I'm as sloppy in skin and belly and boobie as any fat man.
I WANT FAT EQUALITY.
grins, ok, rant over.
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Re: a feminist rant - having nothing to do with philo !
Tue, September 4, 2007 - 6:40 PMwell said. i am with you.
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Re: a feminist rant - having nothing to do with philo !
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 9:37 AMYou make an entirely valid point!
An observation I've made among my fat male friends is that they find obesity contemptible in women yet perfectly acceptable to themselves.
Though luckily for me I tend to be compulsively attracted to chubby men. :p -
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Re: a feminist rant - having nothing to do with philo !
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 1:09 PM<<An observation I've made among my fat male friends is that they find obesity contemptible in women yet perfectly acceptable to themselves.>>
That's typical. It's the other viewpoint--that obesity is either no big deal or bad for both women AND men--that is unusual.
It's part of the woman-hating fabric of society; men who think like this are of the view that women exist solely for men's pleasure. I'm curious, what do you say to these men who are your friends? Do you challenge their view, point out to them how hypocritical and sexist and dehumanizing it is? -
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Re: a feminist rant - having nothing to do with philo !
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 9:44 PM"I'm curious, what do you say to these men who are your friends? Do you challenge their view, point out to them how hypocritical and sexist and dehumanizing it is?"
Well, on a basic observational level pretty much ANYONE, feminist or not, can easily point out the discrepancy. On an idealogical level, let's just say that I try, and by that I mean I attempt to communicate that's both vacuous and objectifying of them. Naturally, there's good-natured ribbing between friends AND serious objections to the way they feel, which I try to convey in equal measure.
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Re: a feminist rant - having nothing to do with philo !
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 11:46 PM<<Well, on a basic observational level pretty much ANYONE, feminist or not, can easily point out the discrepancy.>>
Of course they can, but I'm not sure what that has to do with asking you if you call your friends on their sexist double-standard. Sounds more to me like an attempt to dodge a straightforward point.
<<Naturally, there's good-natured ribbing between friends AND serious objections to the way they feel, which I try to convey in equal measure.>>
I'm trying not to be critical, but what does good-natured ribbing have to do with it? You mentioned that your friends find obesity contemptible in women but not in themselves, a viewpoint which is unequivocally sexist and hypocritical. I asked if you challenged their sexism and hypocrisy. What does this have to do with unrelated "good-natured ribbing between friends"? -
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Re: a feminist rant - having nothing to do with philo !
Sat, October 13, 2007 - 12:08 AM"Of course they can, but I'm not sure what that has to do with asking you if you call your friends on their sexist double-standard. Sounds more to me like an attempt to dodge a straightforward point."
That's not what I'm doing at all- perhaps I phrased that inaccurately. I was just pointing out that, aside from my own recognition of this, others can see it too- maybe a superfluous fact on my part.
"I'm trying not to be critical, but what does good-natured ribbing have to do with it? You mentioned that your friends find obesity contemptible in women but not in themselves, a viewpoint which is unequivocally sexist and hypocritical. I asked if you challenged their sexism and hypocrisy. What does this have to do with unrelated "good-natured ribbing between friends"?"
Again, poorly phrased on my part, or my approach with my friends is inadequate- the way I try to convey my thoughts and opinions on the matter is a mixture of the truth of the matter, that it is unequivocally sexist and hypocritical, with humor and general teasing to make it a bit more palatable to someone who is typically not responsive (through, as discussed in previous topics, an engendered cultural bias against women) to facts and ideas that are common sense to you or I.
I'm sorry if my phrasing was a bit misleading or quizzical- hopefully that clarified a bit. -
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Re: a feminist rant - having nothing to do with philo !
Sat, October 13, 2007 - 8:30 AMHmmm, well this isn't really for unsubscribed since they've unsubscribed but in my experience "kidding" people about being sexist or racist or homophobic usually has no effect on that person's sexism, racism or homophobia since it essentially minimizes the sexism or racism to the status of something not particularly important that's really a joke and not worth taking seriously. I've found saying "you know something, that sounds really racist/sexist, did you mean it to?" tends to address the issue in a way where someone either has to own their racism or at least discuss why what they're saying is racist/sexist/homophobic. At the very least, I'll get to know just where that person stands and if they're intentionally being prejudiced or are just expressing an ignorance they're willing to educate themselves about.
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Re: a feminist rant - having nothing to do with philo !
Sat, October 13, 2007 - 8:24 AMKip - Yeah, this double standard still exists. It's kinda like the same double standard that exists vis a vis aging. Though our consumer culture is doing a remarkable job of making men just as self conscious and insecure about their looks as women so this may be something that is kinda on its way out I suspect. I've known more than one gay man who clearly has an eating disorder (Gay men, of course, being subject to the scrutiny and judgment of the male gaze!)
Another factor is that studies have shown that men tend to view themselves as both more attractive and slimmer than they actually are! That they actually have inflated ideas of their own attractiveness (if a deflated body image ;-) Not that this really has to do with how others see us but I thought it may have some passing relevance.