<<i know that historically we have considered the oppression of womyn to be at the advantage of men and primarily a man's idea, however, does this really make sense to our postie mentality? with women oppressing womyn within patriarchy just as much if not more than men - have we come to a point of diminishing return by calling it a male dominated system? are we crippling the male's ability to contribute to the dismantling of this machine by saying it is their fault? are we misguiding womyn by placing the blame for their opression on men? is it really entirely the doing of men that have led us here? i am not contesting that oppression exists just questioning the way we label it and what we are doing about it.>>

First off, what do you mean by 'postie'? Post-feminism or something else?

Women oppress women largely BECAUSE of patriarchy---i.e. they try to cater to patriarchy in order to gain something from it, at the expense of other women. Ann Coulter, anyone? I hardly think, however, that anyone could suggest that women oppress women equally as much or more than men, and keep a straight face. That simply is not true. We don't merely call it a male dominated system--that's precisely what it IS. And again, even if the other were true, it is still founded on patriarchy, which is something that ALL women, even those who try to work the system at the expense of other women, are oppressed by. The most powerful woman in the world still lives within, and has to work either with or against, patriarchy.

What I'm trying to say is that even if some women are trying to use it to their benefit and hurting other women in the meantime, that hardly changes what it is at its foundation, which is a system set up by men for men's benefit, to the detriment of ALL women, even those who attempt to find favor by playing kiss-ass.

I don't think men are crippled at all by acknowledging the facts. We DO live in a male-dominated society, we DO have a culture that hates women, and it IS because men set it up to be that way. Calling a spade a hoe won't change the reality, and I, for one, am not interested in coddling the male ego lest it suffer some bruising.

if you are talking about an general social system in which those who have been gendered as men (fathers, brothers, sons) are explicitly or implicitly granted rights and privileges not granted to those gendered as women (mothers, sisters, daughters) and others (deviants, those who fail to uphold gender rules, etc.) then patriarchy is the right word. women oppressing each other under a patriarchal system is not evidence of the equality of the oppressive women with the privileged men, it's simply evidence of a survival tactic that those denied rights and privileges engage in. Those women who use the patriarchal system to their advantage or survival are still subject to the very rules which they manipulate. Men still have the advantage in that they can make or break the rules without repercussion. This is without even considering how race and class play into this power dynamic.